[Ostgut Ton]

Despite the Berghain and Panorama Bar mixes being fairly new titles in a commercial format that is close to twenty years old, they have nonetheless in a short time become indispensable. The success behind the series is directly linked to the success of the club itself, namely that of the DJs who compile and mix them are residents of said club and provide the best clubbing soundtracks in the world right now. The third installation in the Panorama Bar succession is placed in the care of Prosumer, whose focus here isn’t on profiling new and exclusive tracks (though there are of course some of those Ostgut Ton exclusives on here), but rather putting together a solid mix that pays no heed to release dates.

It is one of those keenly tipped exclusives that kicks off the mix, Steffi’s forlorn “Sadness” immediately creating a nostalgic atmosphere via its bitter-sweet piano house tristesse. While it’s a beautiful track to start with it does feel tacked on to the mix, with DJ Duke’s “Heard,” which follows, not sounding like the smoothest transition and feeling like the mix has started all over again from this point. Things flow more smoothly from here with another of the exclusives, Hunee’s incredible “A Leaf For Hand In Hand” seamlessly blended in, its loose percussion swinging around fluidly over the tubby Juno bass line and rising house chords. Through tracks like this, which lovingly eschew an old school vibe, coupled with the fact that the majority of the tracks on the mix are actually quite old, Prosumer pulls off a mix that is all at once steeped in history but still sounding box fresh.

That is in no small way helped along by the current resurgence in Chicago house and vintage synth sounds proliferating releases. His impeccable taste pulls together little known gems from Morgan Geist, Jeff Mills, Uwe Schmidt and DJ Iz with such ease you feel like he could have just been hanging out at home one day pulling records off his shelves and decided to record his efforts. Romanthony’s “House of God” also provides a strong point of the mix, the deeply religious feel to the track a clear pointer to the opinion many hold that house music is indeed a spiritual thing. Under his Circulation guise Joshua Michaels’ “Sincerely” slides in right alongside with its mirage-like, summery melodies and fired up vocal samples. It provides not just one of the highlights of the mix but also proves to be an axis, as it unfortunately gives way to the only contentious moment on the CD, Lil Silva’s “Pulse Vs. Flex,” a track so out of keeping with the vibe of the rest of the mix, it becomes an unwanted focus on repeat listens. UK bass music has been creeping into house and techno sets for several years now and having heard Prosumer drop “Let Me See What U Workin’ With” in a the middle of a similarly styled set recently I know it can work, however here it just doesn’t.

The taste of the garish-in-comparison track soon fades though with J.T. Melody’s “Prove It” warming things up again, before Prosumer heads into slightly harder territory and a fantastic run to the finish with the pulsing, hallucinatory “L.T.B.C.Y.B.” from Uwe Schmidt’s i alias, the mono-synth workout of T.S.O.S’ unreleased “Over And Over” and Jeff Mills’ banging “Let’s Swing It” under his one time alias Servo Unique. Smoothing out those harder edges, Prosumer finishes with the sublime, Fingers Inc.-sampling “Love Injection” from Mike Dunn’s QX-1 moniker, providing a fitting end to a mix that gives an accurate account of Prosumer’s tastes and abilities as a DJ. Panorama Bar 03 may not be immediately arresting, but like any great mix (or album for that matter) it sinks in deeper and deeper each time you hear it.

If you ever have the immense pleasure of meeting Kerstin Egert, you won’t soon forget her radiant ebullience or her buoyant hugs. Her wide smile shines just as brightly in conversation as it does from behind the decks, where she can always be counted on to share a personal, variable, and downright bodacious mix of tunes that cut straight to your emotional core. Despite almost two decades of experience as a DJ and resident for some of the world’s most well-known and respected clubs (from Tresor to the old Ostgut to her current residence at Berghain/Panorama Bar), Egert — alias Tama Sumo — didn’t really step into the global spotlight until 2008 when her first release on appeared Ostgut Ton (produced in partnership with her dear friend and musical ally, Achim Brandenburg, known to most as Prosumer). A few months after the release of “Play Up” and “Brothers and Sisters,” her incredible DJ sounds first graced my ears in the form of her — in my opinion, legendarily awesome — LWE podcast (which, although archived, can be easily found on the Internet). After 16 years of spinning, Ms. Egert finally earned her due respect with the release of the much-anticipated Panorama Bar 02, a mix that would top the charts as the year drew to a close. Months after her popularity boom and the world tour that ensued shortly after, we checked in with Tama Sumo to get the scoop on the Panorama renovations, the state of the Berlin club scene, and where she’s heading next.

So let’s just start at the beginning — when exactly did you first realize that you might want to do this music thing for the rest of your life?

Kerstin Egert: Oooooh. Hmm, well, music was always important for me. I played guitar as a child, but I think it was more or less because it was cheap and it didn’t take much space — can’t really say it’s one of my favorite instruments. I would loved to have played drums or maybe bass guitar or something like that. I spent of lot of time as a child listening to music and spent all my pocket money for records. I think at this age, I thought everybody liked music, and I don’t remember exactly when it became really clear to me that it’s kinda defining my life. Maybe at the end of my twenties?

Did you have a career before you were a DJ?

I studied, and during university I started to DJ. Then I was working for a company doing personal management, a job that I liked a lot — I loved talking to people and it was something that I found quite interesting. But then it was too much to have the full time job and also DJ on the weekends. For 14 years it was a balancing act. So then in 2007 I finally thought, “Ok, maybe I have to make a decision.” And it’s pretty clear which way it went. [laughs]

Where you living in Berlin at that time? Where are you from originally?

Well, I was born in a little village in Bavaria called Mühlhausen, between Nuremberg and Munich. But I was living in Berlin since 1990. I started my first steps into DJing in 1993.

Germany is known for breeding some of music history’s most influential experimental electronic music acts. Did you grow up interested this vein of music, or did you stumble upon it later?

I wish I did, but I didn’t. I grew up in a very little village in Bavaria — and of course we had no computers in the 70′s, when I grew up. It was far away from growing up with cool soul and disco music! So I grew up with mostly mainstream music — what came on the radio, and there were only two radio stations. During my youth, I was more or less forced to listen to some rock music, [laughs] which I actually don’t really like, I don’t really have a feeling for it. But, you have what you have. We also had some Italo disco and some mainstream disco, and by the 80′s of course I got some things like Depeche Mode or whatever. But in the record stores it was all things that everyone knew — there wasn’t any underground.

So when were you first exposed to underground music?

It wasn’t until I left home for university that I first heard other kinds of music. I studied in Erlangen, near Nuremberg, for three years. At this time, Nuremberg had what I thought to be a quite good scene. I went to my first acid house party there and it was totally flashy — it was really so mindblowing to me, so completely different. Even before this, I had started to listen to some independent music. But this scene was totally in the electronic music direction, which was much more my thing, and I was [deep breath] — wow!

Can you think of a moment in those early days when you realized you wanted to be a performer, instead of just a someone in the crowd?

There was an old friend of mine named Holger whom I knew from Nuremberg, who came to Berlin a little after I did. I shared a lot of music with him, we went record buying all the time. He sometimes DJed in Nuremberg and later in Berlin. We talked a lot about music, listened to a lot of music. And then he played at Drama, a house bar in Kreuzberg [Berlin], in 1993. And he was the one who said, ‘Ah, Kerstin, why don’t you DJ?’ He would really insist, forcing me all the time, ‘You have to become a DJ! Music is so important for you.” Because often times I was recording music I liked for my friends, on cassettes — I always liked sharing things. He kept saying, ‘Think over it.’

I’m really more an introverted than an extroverted type. I just kept thinking, ‘No, no… this is such a stage for me, I don’t know if I feel comfortable with that.’ I was refusing this for a long, long time. And then he played at the Drama bar and he was like, ‘Kerstin, I play there regularly, and I would so love if we did it together.’ So he gave me his old record players and said, ‘Try to mix.’ Then, without my knowing, he confirmed a date for the two of us at this bar. If he didn’t, I think I wouldn’t be a DJ today. So it’s due to him that I do it.

So what was it like transitioning from Nuremberg to Berlin? How were the scenes in the two cities different?

I mean compared to Berlin, the clubs in Nuremberg were very nice and a bit chic. Then I came to Berlin, which was completely different, because it was right after the wall came down. There were immediately a lot empty spaces here, and it wasn’t clear to whom they belonged. It was possible for people to throw illegal parties there because nobody lived there, the space belonged to no one. As long as things were this way, people could bring in their sound systems, bring in their party, whatever. It was really weird, I liked that a lot.

It was a dirty atmosphere for sure because nothing was renovated — it was the former East, everything was abandoned. And you had some great locations, like Tresor or the Planet, which was at different locations. There wasn’t this big flier culture at that time, and no Internet, no place where you could go to look what’s going on. It was quite interesting because you had to know the people. So somebody tells you, ‘Oh, there’s a party on Koepenicker Straße! Go through the second door and then up to the third floor….’ It was really amazing, kind of an adventure game.

For me, who came from sober and nice Bavaria, it was a trip! I loved that. And the music was different, too. Whereas in Nuremberg it had been a lot of the nice, cozy acid-housey thing, here in Berlin, techno was the soundtrack to all the political and social things that were going on. At the beginning of the 90′s, there weren’t a lot of places where they’d play house music. It was a more like a really dirty, industrial sound that you could hear in every club — or at least that’s how I perceived it. So for me, at that time, I sometimes found it a bit too hard, because I wasn’t used to it.

In such a historically “techno” city, you have such a warm, housey sound. At what point did it become normal to play house music the way you play it? Or is Berlin still primarily a techno town?

I think Berlin is still more a techno town than a house town. But compared to the 90′s, or the beginning of the 90′s, the house sound has increased a lot. And of course the borders are a lot more fluid. At the beginning of the 90′s, it was more of a distinction if you’re a techno or a house DJ. This or that. This was a bit of a pity, because there was kind and attitude that if you’re cool you play techno, and if you’re “handbag” you play house. At Panorama Bar I love to do that — I love to go from techno to house to techno to disco — for me it’s about playing music that I like, that touches me in some way, and not to just have one genre that I have to fit into. At the beginning of the 90′s, I had the feeling that this was very unwritten rule, that you have to play either THIS or THAT, but not both. It wasn’t until the middle or the end of the 90′s that people started combining the two.

How do you feel like the the scene here in Berlin has changed in more recent history? Especially with the influx of the discount airlines and so-called techno tourism?

Well, I think it’s still a solid place. For sure there are lots more people coming from abroad for a weekend to party, and that does something with the scene. But I think it can get quite interesting. From the view of the DJ: at some point in the past the club scene became so familiar to a lot of people, they know what to expect. But now, because there are so many people coming from abroad, you always have a good mixture of people — some who are from Berlin, who you know (so there’s that family feeling) mixed with some people that nobody knows, who might be here for the first time. I think it can be a good exchange.

To be honest, I think it’s really great when I travel around the world and people have these glowing eyes as they say, “Oh I came to Berghain last month, it was so great!” Maybe this sounds a bit cheesy, but it’s in these moments when you see that music can be something combining, that you can celebrate together — that’s sweet! I’ve gotten to know so many people from all over, even when maybe we didn’t even share the same taste for music. So I guess, to answer the question, sure it changed the scene, but not in a bad way. As long as you stay open-minded and open-hearted! This is why I went to a big city instead of staying in a village where everything has to stay the same.

So you’d say it’s good to have this influx of new people?

It can have good and bad influences – it depends what you make out of the fact that a lot of tourists come to Berlin. Concerning exchanges, in many ways it’s great. But there can be bad influences as well. Not because of the new people that come, but because of the people who think they can make good money from these tourists by repeating the well-working concepts. It’s capitalism. If it’s only the money that motivates people of doing something instead of the heart for something and their interesting ideas, that means you are looking for concepts that fulfill the tastes of the masses, concepts that are easy to get… and this usually bores me to death.

On that note, how do you feel about refurbishments at Panorama Bar at the beginning of this year? Do you think it’s a good thing that the clubs are making enough money now to invest back into their spaces?

I like that they renovate, but at the same time they remain true to themselves as they develop. Berghain always did it. Before Berghain, there was Ostgut. And then when Berghain came, it was something different… but in a way there was something which combined the two clubs as well. I think life is changing, so if there are some changes in the club, why not? I am so happy about the new sound system, and I’m SUPER happy about the wooden dance floor — I could go down on my knees!

You know, it’s quite funny, because today I heard that there are many discussions about the how they changed the picture [in Panorama Bar]?

Oh yes, there are.

I guess there is one group who says, “We want the old picture back.” [laughs] But you have to do the same thing as a DJ as well. Try something new. I’ve been a DJ for 16 years, and I don’t play the same sound for 16 years. There’s still something around which everything new is defined. But the center stays the same.

Photo courtesy of Sven Marquardt

What are some of your favorite clubs and parties you’ve played as a DJ over the years?

There are so many. I love the Süd Electronic party in London a lot. Next to Berghain/Panorama Bar, which of course is my favorite [grinning]. This is a party that won my heart, due to a wonderful promoter, crowd and sound system. Also the party Club House I played in New York with the Underground Quality guys – Jus-Ed, Levon and Anthony I appreciate a lot for the same reasons. I’m really, really happy to know them and that they invited me.

Some other parties and places I’ve really like very very much are, hmm… La Villa in Oslo, Techstock at Reitschule (a kind of collective with a political background in Bern), Trouw in Amsterdam, Silo in Leuven, Pacotek in Jerusalem/Tel Aviv, Cassero in Bologna, Ego Club and Baalsaal in Hamburg, Robert Johnson in Offenbach, Inkonst in Malmö, Rex Club in Paris, Pulstar in Köln, and in Japan I like Unit and Module in Tokyo and Mago in Nagoya.

So now you’re a producer as well as a DJ. How do you feel about producing compared to DJing?

I like producing a lot. There were many years where I was a bit afraid of it, because I’m not very much into the technical stuff. But I have to say a big thank you to Prosumer. I think without him I wouldn’t have done it. He was the one who said, ‘Hey come to my house, let’s do it!’ And he forced me — he took away a lot of my fear about it — ‘Just try it!’

I always thought, ‘Oh, I have to know so many things,’ so his prodding was super helpful to me. At the moment we’re working on a new track for Ostgut Ton. I’ll try to work by myself as well. But I couldn’t at first because I didn’t have the knowledge, and I didn’t have the gear. I wanted to produce with machines, not just with a computer, but I didn’t have the money for it. But after the [Panorama Bar 02] CD came out I had a bit more bookings and I tried to spend some of this money on some gear, and now I can build up my own studio and work alone as well. At the end of last year I bought a synthesizer called Nord Lead 2 and a drum synthesizer, Pearls Syncussion. And finally some studio monitors! And I had a Roland 808 and 101 already – so I guess it’s a good basis now for making music that I like.

Despite all this, I always want to work with Achim because we’re good friends and it’s so much fun to work with him, so inspiring. So I think I’m getting more and more into the producing thing. But I have to say, I do NOT understand why in the music scene it’s such an expectation that if you want to be a DJ, you have to produce, and if you are a producer, you have to DJ. Because I think they’re two totally different things. One should have the chance to go without the other.

So when you go to a record store, can you describe what it is you’re looking for?

I prefer analog sounds — or a least analog sounding sounds. Because I know some producers can do a good job of sounding a bit analog but it’s still done digitally. I really like it if something is a bit dirty, maybe edgy or rough. I need some deepness. I need some funkiness. And sometimes, cheese for me is okay too. Or a bit of a pop attitude. Once in a while I need that. I think I’m looking more to old schoolish sounding things. I’m not really into minimal or much of the new minimal or loopy house sounds, for me, if it sounds very minimal it’s just not much an interest for me. I want some funk. Soul. Deepness. This is all what I like a lot. And some disco as well. And jacking things are always getting me!

What sounds turn you off? Ten seconds and you say NO?

Minimal, minimal house… everything which is only functional bores me to death. You know that it will work at the club when you play it, but there’s no really good idea behind it. It’s just working. And when something is too overloaded, I can’t stand it. I love minimal things in terms of what Robert Hood would do — focus on the important sounds in a track. I think there are a lot of tracks that sound as if they are made in two hours. I sometimes wish that people would spend more time in caring for the sounds, so something sounds more three dimensional, not two dimensional.

Are there some records you never leave home without? Any labels or artists that are always hiding somewhere in your crate?

OK, there is no record which I have always with me. But… It’s so funny. Maybe Marcus Mixx? I usually have one of his records with me. I often have a Soundstream record with me. And for sure records from Achim and Steffi, and I always have Shed with me — I never go anywhere without a Shed record. Shed or Wax or Equalized, one of them.

What else? Hmmm. Some of my most loved labels and producers that I would usually have with me for a set are Ostgut Ton, Uzuri Records, Madd Chaise Inc., Deconstruction/Novel Sound, Underground Quality, Third Ear, Restoration, UniRhythm, Sound Signature, Beautiful Granville, Rush Hour, Delsin, Metrolux, Strength, Soul People Music, Fachwerk, M-Plant, Purpose Maker, FXHE, Dolly, Dekmantel. And I never leave the house for a gig without a lot of old house and techno records from Chicago, Detroit and New York.

Obviously music is your main deal, but in a city like Berlin, I can’t help but wonder if there are any other artforms that inspire your work.

From all the different artforms, I guess movies or video installations inspire me the most. I like movies a lot, especially the small independent ones, and I’m sure that sometimes atmospheres or music in films are also an inspiration for me as a DJ and producer. Achim and I once worked for a documentary TV project and were asked to choose the music for it — we loved that, because it’s a different and very interesting approach to music. Just as well as our work for fashion shows for which we also choose music. Projects like this also have an influence on my DJ work — maybe less concerning the music selection itself, but more the way in which I’m looking for music.

So what’s on the horizon for you?

Prosumer and I did a remix for Mount Kimbie, the track “William,” for Hotflush [to be released April 26]. And then we’re working on a new Ostgut Ton release, a 12 inch, which includes a remix by the Oliverwho Factory from Detroit and which will be released 31 May. And then we have a Japanese gay pop group, they live here in Berlin, and we were asked to do a remix for them as well. They once gave me a CD, and I like what they are doing, so hopefully that will work out. And then there’s an Ostgut Ton compilation coming out later this year. Steffi was asking if I want to do something for her label, but I think, as I said, I’m quite slow. So maybe that’s not for this year. Let’s see.

Welcome to the latest edition of our series of interviews and mixes affectionately titled Talking Shopcasts. The majority of media and fan attention gets showered on the artists who create the music we love to listen to/DJ with/dance to, and for good reasons. But without the hard work, keen ears and business savvy of label staff, we’d be stuck only streaming tracks on their websites. For our fifth volume, we focus on arguably Berlin’s hottest label, Ostgut Ton. It’s difficult to describe the label’s meteoric rise to the top of the pile without lapsing into hyperbole, as it evolved rapidly from merely Berghain/Panorama Bar’s label wing to a dominant force in underground dance music in fewer than four years. In that short time, Ostgut Ton has helped make stars of Marcel Dettmann, Ben Klock, Cassy, Shed, Prosumer & Murat Tepeli, and almost anyone else who earns one of its coveted catalog numbers. Each must-purchase release pushes house and techno forward in a way few labels can claim without letting the success go their heads. With that in mind, we picked label manager (and LWE podcast alumnus) Nick Höppner’s brain about the label’s sound, its future, and even a tip for getting past Berghain’s bouncers. In case that’s not enough, we’ve also procured an exclusive and incredibly deep mix from Panorama Bar resident, Steffi.

Please tell me your your job title and what you do on a day-to-day basis for Ostgut Ton.

Nick Höppner: I am Ostgut Ton’s label manager. I take care of all things administrative here at the label, i.e. licensing our compilations, booking mastering dates, setting deadlines for our artists, graphic designers, lay-outers and press sheet writers and trying to make everyone stick to those deadlines, translating press releases from German to English, coordinating schedules with our PR agency Tailored Communications, our distributor Kompakt and our manufacturer Handle With Care, handling third party licensing, accounting sales for all our releases and artists. I am not doing it alone though. I’m supported by Michael, one of Berghain’s co-owners. He’s taking care of most of the artwork together with our layouter Yusuf Etiman and different artists, illustrators and graphic designers. For some of the day to day business, I’m getting support by Nicole and Elif who are taking care of our booking and bills are taken care of by our company’s general financial accountant.

Tell me about the beginning of Ostgut Ton. Why and how did you start out? How did the name Ostgut Tontraeger come about?

First of all, the label’s name is Ostgut Ton. It started as Tonträger, which means carrier of sound in German, but after our first release we changed it to Ton, which is German for sound. Ostgut is the name of the company running Berghain and Panorama Bar and was the name of the club preceding Berghain, which included a smaller version of today’s Panorama Bar, where I have already been a resident DJ. Ostgut had to close at the beginning of 2003 due to a re-development plan of the entire area. There’s a massive O2 arena now where the club once was. As a reminder, especially of the Sunday afterhours at Ostgut’s little garden right next to the tracks coming out of Ostbahnhof, André Galluzzi did a mix called “Im Garten” (in the garden) on his own label Taksi Music after Ostgut finally closed. The idea for a label had been floating around for a while, but everyone was so busy running the club itself and it was never realized; so André and his business partner just did it as they already had the infrastructure.

When it became clear there would be a follow up club, I got in touch with the guys running it and offered my help in case they were still thinking about setting up their own label. They reacted very positively, but needed to spend more time on setting up the club itself. And six or seven months after Berghain and Panorama Bar had opened, I went to work on licensing our first mix, Berghain 01 by André Galluzzi. We didn’t have any big plans then. We wanted to make that compilation, that was it. Kompakt agreed to distribute it. My bosses advanced me with an incredible amount of trust. Although I had worked for a record label before, I wasn’t really experienced as I hadn’t been given any responsibilities at my former job. That’s how it started. A while later Ben Klock and Marcel Dettmann, both residents at Berghain, left a demo with Michael and this demo became our first vinyl release.

What is Ostgut Ton’s mission statement, its modus operandi?

We just wanted to set up a platform for our residents to release music on, and that’s what we did.

How is the label’s roster decided? Is it strictly limited to Berghain/Panoramabar staples?

It is, with the exception of special projects like our ballet cooperation, where we asked artists like nsi., Luciano, Sleeparchive, The 7th Plain and Âme to write music for choregraphy staged by the Staatsballett inside Berghain, which we then released as Shut Up And Dance! Updated (Ostgutcd 03). Other special projects include the exclusive tracks we’ve released on vinyl for our mixes Berghain 02 & 03, although none of the artists involved have been complete strangers to the club. On the contrary: Norman Nodge is a resident, Radio Slave runs a label night at Panorama Bar, tobias. and Shed have had quite a strong affiliation through Cassy and Marcel Dettmann already.

An example of Berghain/Panorama Bar flyer artwork

Ostgut/Berghain stands out both as an insular, tight-knit music community and, as has been said, a “world capitol of techno.” Do you still see Ostgut Ton as a local label?

Mostly, yes — at least when you look at it from the production side of things. The core of the label is completely Berlin based, although we have just started to release material by one of our international residents, Luke Slater as Planetary Assault Systems, as well. He plays Berghain four times a year. In terms of how the label is perceived and where our music is bought, it totally is an international label, though.

How much freedom do Ostgut’s artists have in what they release? How much control do they have over the final product?

They have 100% control and freedom. It is not a rare thing for me to hear the music after it already has been mastered and the manufacturing process is already in full swing. We have declined to release music by one of our close artists only once. When it comes to artwork and packaging the label gets more involved, though. Michael is a very visual person and usually has quite an influence on how our releases end up looking.

What is one of your favorite releases on your own label? Why?

It has to be our first vinyl one, “Dawning” by Dettmann/Klock as its success came as a complete surprise. We have just put it out, no press or DJ promo. Marcel hadn’t released anything before and Ben only rarely before that, I think/ “Dawning” was such a fresh track at that time. It has this kind of dark seriousness about it and at the same time has a very playful edge. It combined straight banger qualities with an afterhours sensitivity making for quite a unique combination. It was a very satisfying experience.

Ostgut has risen quickly to the top of the pile in tandem with Berghain/Panoramabar. Is there a lot of pressure to maintain Ostgut’s top rated reputation? How does it impact your label decisions?

I would be lying if I said I’m not feeling any pressure at all. At the same time, we are trying to stick to what we believe in and what has worked for us in the past: Give the artists as much freedom as possible, do nice packaging, pay bills on time

In the last couple years the Berghain sound has crystallized and used to describe a generally dark and banging sort of techno. By contrast, Panorama Bar doesn’t seem as clearly defined. Do you think there is Panorama Bar sound, and if so, what is it?

First of all, I’d like to say that, for me, Berghain hasn’t such a defined sound as is always attributed from the outside. Of course, there are certain congruities between Marcel Fengler, Marcel Dettmann, Norman Nodge and Ben Klock especially. At the same time, they are very different from each other. Len Faki is something else completely already and all our other residents like Luke Slater, Rolando, Tama Sumo, Boris, ND_Baumecker and myself who are frequently playing downstairs as well are all adding different flavours to the Berghain pie. But you’re right in assuming that Berghain musically is a much more defined space as compared to Panorama Bar, where the music policy is much more open yet generally house-oriented. Up there anything might work. The stylistic range is very broad. Thus, it is a lot harder to pinpoint a certain sound, although I’d say that all of the residents have a very good understanding of where house is coming from in general.

Some have likened Ostgut’s signing of Luke Slater’s Planetary Assault Systems to the missing link between early-to-mid 90′s “hard” techno and contemporary sounds. Do you find that to be the case as well? Do you see Ostgut as something of an ambassador of that style?

Not really, to be honest. The way we have released the music as we did, has been more a matter of who had what available at what time. If some of the more house-y DJs and producers had been more prolific, it could have been the other way around completely. There has never been a master plan behind what we did. We just went along with it. Of course Luke Slater and our label are a good match. But again, the relationship with him goes back to a time when the thought of a label didn’t even exist. The guys behind Berghain have been promoting parties in Berlin since the mid 90s and started booking Luke at a very early stage. It is nice that it’s all falling into place, but it does so because of long term, quite personal relationships and not because of business plans.

Along those lines, is there a particular era of electronic music you feel is ripe for rediscovery?

Can’t think of one at the moment. Maybe, because in the environment of Berghain/Panorama Bar, it all has been always kind of present. We have so many residents, and Michael and Norbert have chosen DJs very well. Anything from Hi-NRG, deep house and loop-y, banging techno has always been represented, independent of current trends. This might sound a bit pompous, but it is how it is.

An example of Berghain/Panorama Bar flyer artwork

After hearing the Shut Up and Dance! Updated compilation and seeing artists like Animal Collective, who aren’t necessarily dance-oriented, on the Berghain schedule, is Ostgut Ton open to releasing more than dance music? Are there any plans on this front?

Yes, we are open for something like that, but there aren’t definitive plans at all.

Going back to Panorama Bar, are there plans for a second Panorama Bar mix CD?

Yes, indeed. I’ve almost completed licensing our second Panorama Bar CD which is compiled and mixed by Tama Sumo. It’s going to be released on October 19th and there will be exclusive tracks by Levon Vincent, Basic Soul Unit, Lerosa and our resident Steffi on a two part vinyl set.

How have the exclusive tracks for the Berghain mixes come about? Do the DJs propose the selections or do the producers approach Ostgut Ton with the tracks? Or is the label that’s making the suggestions?

It’s all in the DJs’ hands. They all are very well connected, some are even close friends with the contributors. As soon as they’ve decided which tracks to use, I get involved for the paperwork.

How do you think the proliferation of podcasts and live sets over the Internet impact the viability of mix CDs? Is there something that can be captured in a mix CD that’s missing from podcasts and downloaded live sets?

Economically speaking, in order to sell mix CDs these days there has to be an added value compared to podcasts and live mixes off the Internet. We are trying to achieve this by featuring exclusive material and I think we will even focus more on that in the future. So far it is working out for us, only meaning we are not losing money with the mixes

Although Ostgut Ton is by no means the first label affiliated with a club, it’s quite possibly the most popular in recent memory. Perhaps seeing your success, a number of other clubs have opted to release records and mix CDs as well. Do you think clubs make for good record labels? Why or why not?

Well, I think our success is very relative. Of course, we have fortunately been getting a lot of attention, but anyone who thinks we are making a lot of money with the label is clearly mistaken. Bookings are where the money’s coming in. I still think it is not a bad idea for a club to set up their own label, even today. A club already brings an office infrastructure, there is a network of DJs and artists to be tapped into, and there’s a great chance for cross-pollination between club and label, as long as both jobs are done well.

What are a few other labels, past and present, you respect/revere the most? Why?

Quite obvious, but Factory, because they really treated music as a piece of art to an extent where they actually lost money with mega hits (“Blue Monday”) without diverting an iota from the original idea. I really like how Innervisons are tackling the new challenges of running a record label today, plus they’re releasing good music. And although it’s probably really about time now to rethink their stance, I love Perlon’s stubbornness not to go digital.

The Berghain/Ostgut crowd seems to have a cozy relationship with Hard Wax. What is Ostgut’s relationship with some of the labels it releases/distributes?

Well, a lot of artists we are working with are distributing their labels through Hard Wax: Shed, Marcel Dettmann, Ben Klock, and Cassy. We’re all shopping for records there frequently. Prosumer, Marcel Dettmann and Shed work there, and Cassy used to until last year.

What can we expect from Ostgut Ton in the next year or so?

For the rest of 2009 there will be the new Panorama Bar mix, Ben Klock remixes by Sandwell District, Kenny Larkin and Robert Hood, a new Marcel Fengler 12″ as well as a new one by Prosumer & Murat Tepeli. At the end of 2010 it’s our five year anniversary and I hope we will come up with something nice to mark the occasion. I hope to release both a new Panorama Bar and a Berghain mix next year, as well as one or two artist albums and a string of 12″s including one by Steffi who provided the podcast for this feature. She’s very busy in the studio at the moment. There will also be a new Shed 12″ and maybe even a dubstep mix CD in cooperation with Scuba, who’s running the Sub:stance parties at Berghain four times a year.

And finally: Berghain’s bouncers are notorious for their seemingly random enforcement of door policy. Do you have any tips for getting in?

Don’t give up

Talking Shopcast 05: Steffi (76:14)

Tracklist:

01. Sven Weisemann, “Winter Tale” [Essay]
02. Linkwood Family, “Miles Away” (Intrusion Sunrise Dub) [Firecracker]
03. Tevo Howard, “Everyday House Music” (Album edit)
[Beautiful Granville Records]
04. Kerri Chandler, “Time Is Destiny” [Large Records]
05. Franck Roger, “Klubhead” [Real Tone Records]
06. Leonid, “Sadim” [Sistrum Recordings]
07. Neville Watson, “Up Yours” [Clone Jack For Daze Series]
08. House to House, “Taste My Love” (Tasty Club Mix) [Police]
09. Boddhi Satva, “Warriors Of Africa” (Seedadan Inst.) [Offering Recordings]
10. Scott Ferguson, “Any Day Now” (ElectroVox Remix)
[Deep Vibes Recordings]
11. DJ Boom “Kinda Kickin” [Phonography]
12. Parallel 9, “Domunis” [Music Man Records]
13. Mike Dehnert, “One O Eight” [Fachwerk]
14. OBX, “It’s All We Know (Trippin’ On Air)” [Ascension Records]
15. Shed, “Well Done – 033472 Edit” [Soloaction Records]

In part two of our conversation, Achim and Murat talk about their influences, the future of vinyl, and that geil gay crowd.

“What Makes You Go For It” was one of my favorite songs of last year. Can you tell me a little bit about how it came about?

Murat: That was the first time I played at Panoramabar — that was 2005, I won’t forget that. I made the EP on the Playhouse label and they invited us to play there live. I was so flashed by the place, by the crowd. And when I got back home I was like, “OK, I have to fix this moment somehow,” and I recorded the instrumental track and I introduced it to Achim.

Achim: It’s a Berghain track. You haven’t been there?

No, not yet.

Achim: It’s a very intense place, it’s very sexual place, it’s a very free place, which can be great, but can be totally intimidating. There are days when I go there and it’s the perfect place to be and there are days when I go there and I have to leave after half an hour. It happens rarely, but I think “I’m not really happy with myself tonight,” so this place can be very intimidating and show the dark side.

Murat: For me, this track has so many parts. It has some roughness, some hard parts, some romantic parts with the melodies and the backgrounds. That was Panoramabar for me.

Achim: For me it really reflects some nights in Berlin. You go out and you enjoy the attention you get. Sometimes you think, “I’m the hot guy, all the guys go for me,” but sometimes it leaves this shallow feeling. I’ve had dates with guys where I felt really empty afterwards. They just project something onto me, it’s not about me, and that’s what I tried to capture in the vocals.

Murat: It wouldn’t have been the same without the vocals for me. I was so happy when Michael from Ostgut said, “Let’s do it.” The track was already existing for one year.

Achim: We had a rough mix of it, but I did the vocals and didn’t record them right away, so I tried to record them in a very theoretical mood and it wasn’t right. It took a while for me to recapture the same emotion. It felt like giving back something to [Panoramabar/Berghain]. Personally, I’ve had so many great nights there. DJing there has given me so much confidence. I cry a lot while DJing there ‘cuz it’s so great.

So I gather that you, Achim, are gay. Are you gay as well, Murat?

Murat: Yes, I am.

OK, that makes this next question a little easier to ask. In America, my experience is that techno and house really have no role in the gay club scene. I was curious how you felt they fit into the gay scene in Germany, or maybe Berlin’s in particular.

Murat: Well I live in Cologne, so that’s totally different. I’m only here once every few months or so, but I used to be here every month.

Achim: I’m sick of the gays always being the ones who have the “good taste in music, ha ha.” Most gays [here] spend their days listening to the ABBA music or stuff like that. The same goes for Berlin in most parts of the gay district you have Madonna or ABBA playing constantly or you have this porn dance stuff, this pumping dance sound with no soul which goes perfectly as a background for a porn movie. It’s not that the gay scene in Berlin is one big, great influence on music, but if you take Berghain, Berghain started through gay sex parties. They still have the basement where they do sex parties four nights a week, they have the Snakes party where only men can enter and it’s all about sex. I think it effects the kind of audience goes there, the people who are very tight and stiff with themselves won’t go – a straight audience.

Murat: Besides the sex parties… on normal days.

Achim: You have an audience which is more open minded. At Berghain, most people running the club and working there and most DJs are gay. It’s not planned like that, these people just come together and being like a family.

Murat: I’d say it’s more 50/50.

Achim: Mmm, for Panoramabar upstairs the percentage of gay DJs is bigger. Downstairs at the techno floor it’s more straight. It has to do with the music, because the people running it, especially Michael, they’re really music lovers. They could have just made stupid gay parties and not care about the music at all. But they’re music lovers, so they mixed it. Berghain could do safer booking with bigger names, but they don’t.

Murat: Music comes first at this place and that what I love about it. It doesn’t matter what they play, the sound is so great there.

Achim: You enter the place and right away you know where the focus is. It’s
definitely not standing at the bar and being fabulous, it’s being on the dance floor.

So let’s switch gears for a bit. Who are some of your musical heroes?

Achim: For me it’s Prescription: Ron Trent, Abacus and releases on Balance. Prescription and Balance were the first two labels where I bought everything. I was really thirsty for new releases like that. Also, Relief from about the same time. Producers like Boo Williams and then discovering the earlier stuff, definitely like Mr. Fingers, Marshall Jefferson. His track with Kym Mazelle, “Taste My Love,” the first time I heard that I was really amazed. I really like Blake Baxter. Some Detroit guys I really go for.

Murat: For me, I don’t have specific producers because I listen to a lot of stuff, both hip-hop and house, there’s a lot to mention. There’s not one superhero. I always discover new old stuff, it’s always afterwards that it’s influencing me. A lot of hip-hop and new jack swing stuff meant a lot to me, in the late 80′s a lot of Soul 2 Soul and Diva. That was really my time, I listened to a lot of A Tribe Called Quest. That were my big influences, very funky, groovy stuff. Of course I also love the guys that Achim mentioned, but that was later and not really a part of my influences – not the roots. I also listen to a lot of Turkish stuff you wouldn’t know *laughs* so I won’t start talking about that, but it was also a big influence.

What contemporary artists do you admire?

Achim: To talk about Cassy now would be really obvious. We really love her. It’s hard to separate [the music] from the person. If you ever see her performing live, you will never be able to separate her music from the way she moves. It’s really worth it. She has this really subtle back and forth, very slow movements, very sexy, very groovy – I love it. I’m busy dancing when she DJs, but I could as well stand there and enjoy watching her. I really like this producer called Stephan Laubner, he’s releasing the name STL on his label called Something, I really like that. There’s this Italian guy called Lerosa in Dublin, I guess, he released on Real Soon and Enclave Recordings.

Murat: For me I only know Cassy well. I don’t know a lot of producers personally, a lot of producers don’t know me because I don’t have many releases. I’m not really into the scene because I have another job [as a surgeon], so making music is my part time job. But I know Cassy and I really love her.

Achim Brandenburg, the main Prosumer, belts it out live.

Based on Achim’s charts and your music in general, American dance music seems quite important to you two. And yet it seems like a lot of America is “over” dance music, especially in Chicago where being into house and techno is surprisingly rare. Why do you think this style still holds so much appeal in Europe/Germany while it dies out in its homeland?

Murat: A lot of people tell us this, especially about Chicago. They say, “You’re interested in Chicago music but you’ve never been there. There’s nothing there.” Of course I still want to come over and see that all. Of course it’s not ’85-86, it’s 2008, that’s also what counts. In Europe, electronic music has been huge for the last 15 years, it’s grown so much. My influences are of course the 80′s, those were the years that I grew up, especially the late 80′s.

Achim: For a lot of people electronic/dance music goes hand in hand with a party scene. I think it has a lot to do with that. If you look at Europe, Berlin is usually considered the party capitol nowadays. The reason is, in Berlin you can get away with so much stuff you can’t do in other cities. Berlin is really cheap in a lot of aspects, rents are low, to afford your basic stuff every day is easily done, so it’s easy to run a club.

I was doing an illegal club with some friends for some months. The first time the police came by we were so scared, we said, “Ahh! We’re going to jail,” it was obvious we were doing an illegal club there. They just said, “We had some complaints from a neighbor saying his pictures were falling from the walls, but now we hear what’s going on here so he must be exaggerating. We just have to show up here.” One of them gave us his business card with his contact and said, “If you have any problem with drug dealing here, let us know.” That was some years ago, but it’s still about the same vibe. You have authorities respecting and leaving alone a subculture. So we have a broad basis of things going on and it’s easy to get a license to open a club.

If you compare Berlin to New York, for many people for so many years New York has been the city, and now so many people move to Berlin from New York. If you look at what’s going on in New York, people are not allowed to dance, you have to have a license for people to dance – that’s killing a lot. I don’t know about cities like Chicago, but that’s one approach to explain why it’s like that. It’s very difficult for party organizers to just do something and here it’s very easy.

Murat: You have to have the opportunity to have a subculture, and if you don’t let people party, you don’t have a subculture.

As technology grows more advanced, the requirements for producing electronic music have shrunken dramatically. Some artists and critics have bemoaned this “over-democratization” of producing. How do you feel about these advancements?

Murat: We all have to try harder now!

Achim: Democratization is never something bad. I’m definitely not complaining about everyone having access to the production tools which are becoming the standard nowadays. New techniques, new devices, new programs, in the beginning when they come out a lot of people tend to use them blindly. A program like Ableton Live offers you so many possibilities and you can make a track from scratch and it all sounds very professional and impressive, but it offers you too much. You lose yourself in the options the program gives you, that’s more the problem, in my opinion. People tend to use it blindly and tend not to do something that has to do with themselves [and instead] tend to copy current production styles. It’s great when everybody can have access to stuff. It would be great if everyone would have 808s, it’s so much fun to play with it.

Murat: There’s a lot of fault in the music industry. People do have a lot of output nowadays, everybody can do music, everybody has this output, everyone makes releases and labels. You don’t know what anybody is doing. The music industry pushes the artist, saying, “You have to do a release because nobody will remember you, talk about you half a year later if you don’t do a release.” The artists are very pushed by the music industry. That’s what I like when we do music. Michael of Ostgut asked us if we wanted to do an album and of course we wanted to do that. We collected our ideas from all the years and we put it together and we did this album. I don’t know what’s coming next, but I’m not thinking about the next months to having this and this output.

Achim: The original contracts we were given from Playhouse included having to deliver them new tracks within a period of six months so they could have a follow up release. Both of never signed this contract because it’s…. Hello, I’m making music, what do you want from me? The problem that the music industry, especially the vinyl industry has at the moment, I don’t think it’s based in the people making the music, it’s based in the music industry. They’re all complaining about how bad everything is going. I mean, it is very bad and it makes me very sad that so little vinyl is sold nowadays and that so many tracks are just downloaded illegally. But they were over-professionalizing a lot, “We can do more, we can do more,” there’s so many labels… it’s just too much output. Nobody can follow that, so the market must collapse.

Murat: I never treated music when I was young like I do nowadays, and that’s what I really worry about. When I used to buy a CD, I remember my first CD was a De La Soul album and I listened to that record every day – every day for a fucking half a year. I wouldn’t do that nowadays. I treated music different in those days. It’s like everyone downloads it, listens to 10 seconds and then throws it away.

Achim: I think nowadays you are just trained more and more just to consume music. The aspect of valuing music definitely is fading. If you have a file you download from Beatport or something similar, you just have a name and an artist. It’s something very virtual somewhere on your computer. It doesn’t come with a package, it doesn’t come with any information; with a lot of tracks people have no idea who the actual producers were. So many techno artists don’t do shit, they have people producing it [for them] and the people buying it don’t even know about it because they read the small print on the record anymore. It’s just for blindly consuming, that’s what it’s made for. That’s why it’s so important for us to include – like with “What Makes You Go For It,” we were so happy when we found the artwork of Gaia [Zebellin] which became the artwork for the single because it fit perfectly. It’s important for us to find something we can link to our music.

Murat Tepeli’s smile lights up the room.

What do you think the industry can do to keep vinyl relevant for the mp3 generation? Is there anything it can do?

Achim: I don’t know if you heard about it in the States, about the Pro Vinyl Alliance?

Hmm, no.

Achim: All the German distributors got together and said, we don’t want to turn back the hands of time and mp3 is a reality, so we’re earning money from that. But vinyl comes with a package, usually you buy it at a record shop, you get a musical education and a social background, that’s why they really want to save vinyl, because it comes with all of that. They tried to figure out solutions to save the vinyl and they decided that all stuff from labels which joined this alliance the vinyl release is always two weeks before the digital release so it’s equal chances for a record shop and the mp3 websites. It’s really putting money and love in the artwork again. If I see a record with artwork that I love and I can feel the paint, smell the paint, I love that. I go for that immediately. Putting the focus on making something unique again and not just a mass product.

When it comes to DJing, what’s more important: the quality of the set or the set-up itself? That is, does the way a person DJs (laptop v. vinyl v. Serato et al.) impact how you feel about their set?

Achim: If I see somebody setting up Final Scratch, Serato, whatever, to be honest, I’m always suspicious. That reputation is definitely earned by people like Troy Pierce or somebody like that. It doesn’t do the job to me. I’ve heard people play with mp3 and it was a great set [even though] I was very anti-it. People who say they want to fully express themselves and it works better that way, if that’s how they feel that and I can hear it in the sound, I’m totally fine with it. There are DJs who do a good job and I can see they’re busy putting effects on it and stuff like that, I can see the point. I saw Claude Young DJ years and years ago and he was magic with vinyl. He was playing with three decks and it was amazing. I heard him not too long ago when he was doing a digital set and all the magic was gone. If the only reason you to do the mp3 set up is to save luggage, to be more healthy to your back then I have a hard time accepting it. If people put more into the set then I’m totally pro.

Murat: In my opinion it’s actually bullshit. I don’t mind what anybody is playing as long as it’s a really good set which pushes me. I am suspicious because of the way we treat mp3s nowadays. If I see someone is worrying about and collecting vinyl, he treats his music in a different way and that’s what counts.

Achim: You often get mp3 DJs who play really disposable, exchangeable music.

Murat: It’s very subjective to say someone has to push me and make me feel like dancing, but the DJ has to have a personality.

Achim: I have heard people expressing personality through mp3 set ups. If that comes across I like it. DJing with vinyl is always a challenge because something can go wrong.

The reason I ask is because I DJ with Traktor. Not because I don’t want to DJ with vinyl, but because it’s incredibly expensive for me to buy singles at $10-12 a pop, and I’m not willing to drop a couple grand just to have the opportunity. It’s also increasingly difficult to find stuff. I’m sure I’m not the only one.

Murat: I can understand that.

Achim: You’re definitely right. If you go to places like Mexico, they have a luxury tax of I think 60% on top of vinyl, so you have to pay for shipping it plus the tax. If they all go for digital, I can totally understand it. Living here where they have the access to a lot of music for a decent price on vinyl I don’t see the point that much.

What can we expect from you two in 2008 and beyond?

Murat: We’re definitely going to tour and we’re going to release a 12″ with some remixes from the album. We don’t have a deadline now.

Achim: We do.

Murat: We did! *laughs*

Achim: We had one, we have a new one which is months later which feels much more relaxing. Now we’re going to play some live shows. My DJ schedule is busy. I hope we will make it to the States this year, it looks good, but it looked several times before. Till I have a signed contract I’m not going to be too excited about it. Going to Chicago would be… wow.

Well, don’t get your expectations too high. The audiences here…

Murat: Yeah, everyone is telling us this.

Achim: But I heard there’s still shops where you can find records you would never have a chance to get here.

Definitely a lot of dusty Chicago house records here, that much is true.

Achim: We’re coming to dust them all off!